Molly Scott Cato is MEP for the South West of England and was previously Professor of Green Economics at Roehampton University. She speaks for the Green Party of England and Wales on finance issues. Molly also has expertise in the issues of renewable energy; trade; food and farming; and co-operatives and mutuals.

Molly grew up in Bath, which she left to study Politics, Philosophy and Economics at Oxford University. Following a career in publishing she took a PhD in Economics from the University of Wales, Aberystwyth focusing on employment in the South Wales Valleys. She has written several books including Green Economics (2009), Environment and Economy (2011) and The Bioregional Economy (2012) as well as numerous academic papers.

Molly has three children and lives between Brussels and Bristol. She has spent a lifetime involved with social movements and community activity including the Transition Towns and Stroud Community Agriculture in her hometown. She enjoys singing, basket-making and bodging.

Sue Wilson: If you could have done anything differently over the last 4 years to fight Brexit, what would it be?

Molly Scott Cato:I am a person who relies a lot on truth and data. I think it is true that we should have used arguments about identify and emotional connection more during the referendum campaign, but I am glad that we didn’t resort to the propaganda and disinformation that won the argument for Leave.

Tracy Rolfe: If a serious campaign was launched for the UK to re-join the EU, would you aim to get involved, & what would be the likely timeframe?

Molly Scott Cato: Now that we are definitely leaving I think we need to allow the Brexit project to fail convincingly before we begin campaigning to rejoin. But that is my dream and I believe it will happen after a decade or so because young people feel themselves to be Europeans. In the mean time we need to keep close relationships through friendship groups and twinning.

John Moffett: Would you consider running again in the next general election?

Molly Scott Cato: I intend to spend the next four years doing everything I can to ensure that the next election is fought on the basis of a deal that guarantees a fair voting system. My decision about whether or not to stand depends on how successful that campaign is.

Zoe Adams Green: How likely is a no trade deal at the end of 2020, in your opinion & what can we do to prevent it?

Molly Scott Cato: I think we will end up in the eyeball-to-eyeball situation again at the end of 2020. Last time Barnier blinked over the level playing-field and I think we will all pay the price for that. But once we are out the EU has greater power so I think we will get to the brink but then Johnson will blink, meaning sacrificing some rights and opportunities that are really important to our society and economy. It’s hard to define what, at present, but the farmers and fishermen I represent look pretty vulnerable.

Michael Soffe: What are your plans after you lose your MEP role at the end of January?

Molly Scott Cato: I have six months of transitional allowance and I intend to spend that time holding the government to account over its negotiations and building up close European links to replace those we are losing. After that I have no idea.

Many thanks to Molly for taking part and we wish her well as she leaves Brussels. 

This month we are featuring James and Jack Dart from Inspire EU amongst other Remain projects. 

James is a former school teacher who left his job in 2017 to study European politics in the hope of better understanding the Brexit phenomenon. James co-founded Inspire EU with his brother Jack in order to campaign for a #FinalSay on the Brexit deal, as well as putting the positive case for the EU to people. 

James answers our questions below on behalf of the two brothers.

1) What inspired you to take up the cause to fight Brexit and campaign for a #PeoplesVote?

The injustice, the lies, the faith-based mentality – they all worried me. The day after the result it quickly became clear that the Vote Leave leaders (Johnson and Gove) were already reneging on their promises and commitments – particularly around their central campaign pledge to spend £350 million a week on the NHS. The other aspect that concerned me was the flagrant disregard for detail, planning and expert opinion. As experts warned of economic damage, Brexit advocates – both in Parliament and on the street – waved away any criticisms or concerns in a way that I hadn’t ever seen before. A deeply defiant faith-based mentality had set in which prevented my brother and I from holding the most basic of conversations with our Leave-voting parents. We’d quiz them as to how Brexit would benefit them, but instead of calm, detailed responses, we’d get an angry bombardment of ad-hominem attacks, straw men and red herrings; they had absolutely nothing.

2) What do you think are the main barriers to getting young people to vote?

It’s no secret that young people turn out to vote in the fewest numbers. Indeed, when I type “voting by age” into Google, almost every graph tells the same story: the younger the age demographic, the less likely they are to 1) register to vote and 2) turn out on polling day.

It’s worth noting that this is not some recent phenomenon, but a historic one – though it did get especially bad between 1997 and 2015, recovering slightly in 2017. I think motivation plays an important role in this. I know a lot of people think that one vote won’t make a difference, but the fact is that if too many people think in this way, we lose the votes of a huge proportion of the electorate. Another thing that I think could play a role in this is that some young people who haven’t had access to as good an education as others feel like they don’t know enough about politics to make a decision about who to vote for. I think there needs to be better political education in schools especially, so that young voters feel not only more confident in choosing who to vote for but also more able to think critically about things said by politicians and decide for themselves what they believe in. Also, I think having to register to vote can be an obstacle. Not everyone may realise that they have to do this in order to vote and lots of people don’t know their national insurance number, either. I think there should be automatic voter registration as soon as a young person turns 18 to remove this obstacle.

3) Are you concerned that – with the election on December 12 and with many universities breaking up for the holidays around this time – there will be a negative effect on young people voting?

We are aware of many students this time round who have registered for a postal vote if they want to vote in their home constituency. We have also witnessed more and more students being made aware that they can be registered in both their home and university constituencies and then can decide where they cast their vote. It is also likely that the political turmoil we have experienced in the past few years has led to an increased youth engagement or interest in politics, so hopefully this will translate into an increased youth and student turnout at the polls on December 12th. We really hope that students and all young people feel empowered and motivated enough to make the effort to vote in December.

4) What do you think still needs to be done to convince people who voted Leave in the last election to vote Remain in any subsequent referendum?

Be persistent. Our parents were sure that their vote to Leave was the right choice for over 2 years, and through constant sharing of facts, conversations and heart to hearts, they began to realise what Brexit symbolised. Never give up on the pursuit of the end goal, to stop Brexit entirely. Over 3 years have passed since the referendum, and that has proved to be key to outing the lies at the heart of the Leave campaign. The last election was a very strange one, but we know more about what is winning people over and we have stronger arguments. In summary, be vocal, be persistent, and communicate with others on what is and isn’t working. But remember, you don’t have to convince everyone, just 1 in 10 will do

5) Do you feel that young people will get behind a tactical voting strategy? If so, what can be done to spread this message?

Tactical voting is an absolute must in this election. It’s thought that if 30% of Remain voters vote tactically, then we can prevent a Johnson majority; that has to be our ultimate goal. Our advice has been, and continues to be, that voters young and old should consult the tactical voting sites out there, particularly getvoting.org, tactical-vote.uk and remainunited.org. These sites are continually updating their recommendations as new data comes in, so be sure to cross-check their recommendations right the way up until election day.

6) How have the last three years affected young people’s engagement in politics and their view of Parliament?  Has the turmoil made them less likely or more likely to vote?

Brexit (and the climate emergency) has done a huge amount to dent political apathy among young people. With that said, it’s still been challenging attempting to convert that anti-Brexit energy into activism. For many young people, this comes down to ownership, and a feeling that the Remain movement is for middle-class, middle-aged, polite, beret-wearing Englanders; it’s not cool, it’s not edgy and it’s desperately lacking in youth representation. We’ve had many conversations with young people who admit mobilising for the Donald Trump protest and the climate protests, but not for the EU events. With that said, when it comes to voting, we’ve just seen record numbers of young people registering to vote.

7) Do University students tend to participate more in election voting than other young people who are not in further education?

Students certainly benefit from the information and advice universities give out during an election period. Additionally, campuses tend to become highly political which may also help to advertise the election. We’re certain that this election will see an increase in young people voting, as Brexit, the climate emergency and issues around mental health, housing and the NHS dominate.

A university community exposes students to new ideas and political discourse and offers a space for students to educate themselves about parties and policies, particularly through committed political societies and events. Other young people who are not in further education may be working and may therefore be less exposed to politics or have less time to vote. It is also likely that university students may be more likely to vote on policies that have a direct impact on them, for example policies surrounding tuition fees.

Many thanks to the Dart brothers for taking time out from campaigning to answer our questions!

This month we are delighted to bring you Hugo Dixon. Hugo is a journalist, entrepreneur and campaigner. He is Chair of InFacts and Deputy Chair of the People’s Vote campaign. He is also co-founder of CommonGround. He founded Breakingviews in 1999, which he chaired until it was sold to Thomson Reuters in 2009. He writes columns for The Guardian, The Times, The Independent, The Financial Times, Politico and other publications. He is also author of The In/Out Question: Why Britain should stay in the EU and fight to make it better.

Sian Shaw: How can we combat Brexit apathy in the UK?

Hugo Dixon: We need to start making much more boldly the case for being in the EU – not just the case for a new referendum. And we need to connect the case for being in the EU to things that people already care deeply about – e.g. the NHS and care for the elderly, stopping knife crime, fighting the climate crisis, investing in parts of the country that have been neglected for decades, creating opportunities for young people. We also need to do this honestly. Happily, there are two really strong arguments that connect things people care about to our EU membership. First, we can fix the problems at home if we stop fixating about Brexit because we’ll have more money and politicians will be able to think about something different. Second, we’ll be able to help fix the problems abroad if we are an influential member of a powerful club rather than going solo and ending up either being bullied by the big powers or sucking up to them.

Ruth Woodhouse: Given that the EU & UK parliament will likely prevent Boris Johnson from negotiating a new deal, or leaving without one, do you believe stopping Brexit is more, or less likely with him as PM?

Hugo Dixon: The chances of stopping Brexit have risen now that Johnson is PM. He has antagonised the middle ground in Parliament. But the damage if we don’t stop Brexit has risen. It’s not just that we’ll probably crash out of the EU; Johnson may ride roughshod over constitutional conventions to get his way. So, there’s everything to play for and a huge amount at stake.

Mark Percival: What should be the best strategy now for Remain MPs – a referendum, to stop no- deal, a vote of no-confidence and/or a general election? If we are successful in securing a People’s Vote referendum, what options would you like to see on the ballot paper?

Hugo Dixon: The best strategy now is to pass legislation forcing Johnson to ask the EU for extra time so we can hold a referendum. If that fails, we should move to a vote of no confidence. If there’s a People’s Vote and Johnson is still PM, the question on the ballot should be a choice between whatever he is proposing (presumably “no deal”) and Remain. If a referendum took place under a different prime minister, e.g. Corbyn, the question might be different – but Remain would still be one of the options.

Steve Wilson: Would you back Boris Johnson as Prime Minister if he did a 180 degree turn & supported revoking Article 50?

Hugo Dixon: The chance of that happening is virtually nil.

Juliet Smith: How do you maintain your optimism & positive outlook in the face of so much Brexit propaganda?

Hugo Dixon: At InFacts, we delight in exposing Brexit propaganda. Every morning I awake with a spring in my step. It is taking a long time to get an honest debate. But ultimately, the truth will come out. The big question is whether it happens before or after we’ve left. Everything is still in the balance. It would be wrong to be complacent or despairing. We need to strive every sinew as we can make a real difference.

Thank you to Hugo for agreeing to be our ‘Bremainers Ask’ for August. Our featured campaigner in the September newsletter will be Mike Galsworthy of Scientists for EU.

Links:

InFacts

People’s Vote

This month, Labour MEP Julie Ward has been kind enough to agree to answer some of our questions relating to Brexit. You can read more about Julie here, or listen to her speaking shortly after being re-elected in this video clip. We’re grateful for the time Julie’s taken out of her busy schedule to give us her thoughts and some very interesting insights into Brexit.

Q1: Apart from lobbying MPs, what else can Bremain in Spain members do to influence Labour thinking regarding a second referendum and remaining in the EU?

Be visible at all times across the traditional and new media outlets.

In respect of the UK Parliament, submit written evidence and offer to speak in front of select committees, such as Exiting the EU, Home Affairs, and the European Scrutiny Committee.

Learn about Labour values such as internationalism, workers’ rights and social justice, so that you can situate your arguments in the context of the Labour movement and its traditions.

Praise Labour for its efforts to support business and industry, and if you are a business owner demonstrate the damage Brexit will do to your business.

Write letters to Labour MPs and Labour MEPs. Ask family members in the UK to write about the threats to wider family life and the loss of accrued rights from Brexit. Champion Freedom of Movement and make links with the Labour Campaign for Freedom of Movement.

Also make sure to praise Labour (including the Leader) whenever a step in the right direction is made. Constant criticism is not perceived well. It’s important to remember that Labour does have a responsibility to both Leavers and Remainers – the top 20 Leave and Remain constituencies were both Labour.

Ensure your presence at key Labour events such as party conference, whether that be holding events, rallies or appearing on panels. Fringe events take place outside of the conference zone which means the general public can attend. In particular find out about The World Transformed which is a Momentum-backed arts and politics festival that runs alongside the main party conference. Attend events and speak from the floor where possible.

Build relationships with Labour’s sister party in Spain by writing to Spanish PSOE MPs and MEPs. Jeremy Corbyn attends regular meetings with his opposite number in Madrid and it would be good to get issues other than Gibraltar on the agenda.

Follow and sign up to Left platforms such as Another Europe is Possible, which is a pro-EU organisation campaigning to Remain and Reform. Many high profile Labour politicians are associated with AEIP.

Q2: Are you more or less confident that Brexit can be stopped than you were six months ago, and why?

It is not about Brexit being stopped as, regardless of what we think about the validity of the referendum in 2016, the main parties accepted the narrow majority to Leave. The focus must be on people having a final say on the deal that would implement Brexit. We now know what the UK economy would look like if we leave the EU – restrictions on travel for work, study and leisure, less of a say through losing our seat at the table, and our communities would be poorer outside the bloc. The sunlit uplands of the Leave campaign in 2016 have now been replaced with reality, one of stockpiling medicines and food, and job losses right across the UK in key sectors. Brexit will only lead to more austerity and we will be unable to implement our plans for a fairer, more prosperous Britain.

There is still time to say that this is not what we were promised and it is OK to change our minds. In a democracy we often change our minds at each general election!

Q3: How open do you believe the EU27 are to a further Brexit extension?

I know our European colleagues and indeed sister parties would prefer the Union to be strong and for us to remain a key player as a member state. Our Socialist and Democrat colleagues are particularly open to a change of heart by the UK. Our group leader in the last mandate, Udo Bullman, put a lot of effort into keeping the door open, and colleagues like Austrian MEP Josef Weidenholzer organised letters signed by many MEPs, which were published in the British media. These included a heartfelt open love letter to the citizens of the UK which was greatly appreciated and reciprocated by Women For Europe. The Commission, under President Juncker, has expressed regret at the UK’s decision but always respected the result.

As the March 29th deadline came and went, quickly followed by another missed deadline of April 12th, and then the inevitable European Parliament elections, Brexit began to seem more unlikely. The European Parliament and the Commission are now in the process of internal organisation, and with a long summer break ahead, there’s very little time for either side to conduct the necessary negotiations for any kind of Brexit, especially considering the Conservative Party leadership elections, summer recess and then conference season. The future is very uncertain from an EU perspective, and partly for that reason I am hopeful of a further extension. However, a word of warning: The centrist liberals now operating under the new name of ‘Renew’ answer largely to President Macron, who denied the UK a longer extension earlier this year. Some think he and his clique would simply like to see the back of the annoying Brits!

Q4: Do you believe there will be a general election in the UK in the next few months, and if so, how are you personally preparing for such an event?

A general election OR a final say on the Brexit deal is looking inevitable. There is an impasse that needs to be resolved so that whoever governs can begin to implement a domestic legislative agenda to tackle the issues of climate change, social care, housing, stagnation of wages, the gig-economy and productivity. Only the Labour party has a progressive platform to ensure that these fundamental issues can be resolved and for the economy to begin working for the many, and not the few. Personally, I think it unlikely that Boris Johnson will call an election as the Conservatives will not win. If there is an early general election I predict another hung parliament with Labour being the biggest party. That means we would need to make a coalition with the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru. Labour MEPs always campaign in general elections, even in local elections and by-elections. Although I am not interested in selection as a UK parliamentary candidate I still want my party to do well in all elections. Regarding preparation, it is important to keep the party focused on the need for a public vote on any Brexit deal regardless of who might win an election.

Q5: Do you anticipate any significant change in the Labour Party stance on Brexit in the coming weeks?

The Labour party has been on a journey and I believe it is now fully focused on campaigning for a second referendum where we will be the biggest advocate of remaining in a reformed European Union. It is important to note that 80% of our members want to remain in the EU and we are a membership-led party.

Q6: Should the Labour party collaborate with other pro-EU parties to form a Remain alliance? 

The Labour party always puts up candidates in all constituencies (except Northern Ireland) to ensure that communities across Great Britain have the opportunity to vote for Labour values and policies. I don’t see this changing in the future.

However, working more closely with other parties in the UK Parliament might help rebuild public confidence in politicians. It is something that we do on a daily basis in the European Parliament in our committee work. 

Thanks again to Julie, who we hope will have the chance to serve out another full term as an MEP!

We’re delighted that Debbie Williams and Elena Remigi of the In Limbo project have agreed to answer questions from Bremain members this month. Below you can find out more about the project and our two interviewees, followed by their answers to your questions.

Description of the project

The In Limbo Project is a not-for-profit, non-political initiative set up by a group of EU citizens to record testimonies from the five million victims of Brexit and to allow their voices to be heard. 

In Limbo project book, called ‘In Limbo: Brexit Testimonies from EU Citizens in the UK’. In 2018, it published its second book, ‘In Limbo Too: Brexit Testimonies from UK Citizens in the EU’. This second book is born of a collaboration between the In Limbo project’s group ‘In Limbo – Our Brexit Testimonies’ and the group ‘Brexpats – Hear Our Voice’. 

A true grassroots endeavour, the In Limbo project has gone from strength to strength as the books have become the go-to reference documents for understanding the harrowing human cost of Brexit for all those who, having embraced the European dream and built their life on it, have been plunged into an anguishing limbo since June 2016. These 5 million people risk losing everything (their homes, their friends, their jobs, their families, their sense of identity…) through no fault of their own and, for most of them, without their having had any say in what’s happening.

Elena Remigi

Elena Remigi is an interpreter and translator originally from Milan, Italy. She moved to the UK in 2005 with her husband and son, after spending 6 years in Ireland. She is Founder and Director of the In Limbo project and co-editor of ‘In Limbo & In Limbo Too: Brexit Testimonies for EU Citizens’. 

Debbie Williams

Debbie Williams is Welsh, and recently moved to Spain from the Netherlands. She founded ‘Brexpats – Hear our Voice’ in June 2016 and is on the Steering Committee of British in Europe. Debbie is co-editor of ‘In Limbo Too’.

Jo-Jo Chipper: “In the case histories you have collected, what is the most frequently-occurring fear voiced by the participants?”

Elena: “For EU citizens in the UK, the most recurring fear is that of not being allowed to stay in Britain due to a lack of documents and the presence of Theresa May’s hostile environment. Let’s not forget that some of our members have been dealing with this daily when trying, for instance, to obtain permanent residence. To give you a small example, in the summer of 2017, the HO sent some deportation letters ‘by mistake’. Some were sent to members of In Limbo. One was sent to a Finnish academic; another to a car factory worker upon his return from the holidays. In this context, you can understand why the most vulnerable ones in particular are very afraid about their future. 

The worries may differ but there is a common denominator: the fear of the unknown, a sense of betrayal because our rights have not been guaranteed and anger for not having had a voice in this referendum and what followed.”

Tracy Rolfe: “How much overlap is there between the two groups? Are they mirror images of each other or are there lots of differences?”

Debbie: “We are very much sister groups based on shared circumstances, and also that has now developed into personal friendships. There are many similar worries. Of course, each person is affected emotionally in different ways but the common denominator is one of anxiety based on the unknown.”

Elena: “In both groups, there’s a good mixture of EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU27. Working together has deepened our friendship and made us realise the importance of collaborating to ensure that all our rights are ring-fenced. Both groups of citizens are at serious risk, particularly in the case of a no-deal. The suffering is also the same, so in this sense we are mirror images of each other.”

Pat Kennedy: “Have there been any interesting or helpful responses from politicians who have been presented with the books?”

Debbie: “With ‘In Limbo Too’, yes – encouraging and supportive words from many MEPs, a couple of MPs, and in the Lords. Three MEPs supported us in our presentation to the European Parliament last October.”

Elena: “Both books have received a lot of supportive messages from MPs, MEPs, Ambassadors and other political figures. The first book in particular has been sent to over 1000 politicians and we aim to do the same with the second. It’s imperative that our voices be heard.”

Sandra Stretton: “Do you have another book in the pipeline?”

Elena: “The In Limbo project was conceived as a duology from the beginning. There is no other book in the pipeline, but we will continue to document everything that happens to EU citizens in the UK and to UK citizens in the EU27, as our rights have not been fully guaranteed yet. In the case of EU citizens in the UK, there are grave concerns regarding Settled Status, given it’s an application made in a country known for the hostile environment introduced by Theresa May. It’s already causing problems now, and we wonder what will come next. For Brits in the EU27, there are concerns linked to the various registration systems put in place, access to healthcare and loss of freedom of movement and what that will mean for people working across borders. So this will remain an open project which will give a voice to the voiceless and consign these testimonies to future generations to understand – and hopefully learn from – what happened.

James Gambrill: “How has being involved with the In Limbo project changed your own personal outlook?”

Debbie: “I now have a better understanding about the issues surrounding migration, the preconceived ideas and stereotyping of people. It has opened my eyes to not only European migration but all migration and asylum issues. The human side always seems to be forgotten: Every individual is unique, and the treatment of people by some governments is a disgrace.”

Elena: “Totally agree with Debbie – I would not add anything else.”

Malcolm Perry: “Has there been a difference between the reception of ‘In Limbo’ and ‘In Limbo Too’? Is there a difference between perception of migrants in your opinion?”

Debbie: “As a group, BHOV has had some understandable stick for the word ‘Brexpats’. I take full responsibility for naming it, and I’m hating it more as each day passes. But in consultation with the group we have decided to keep it as it is known and a reminder each day that we are not expats, we are immigrants, like all mobile citizens.”

Elena: “Personally, I think that in terms of the books, they have been equally well received. ‘In Limbo’ being the first volume, it created quite a stir when it came out in 2017, but I would have always felt it to be an incomplete work if the stories of the Brits in Europe hadn’t been told.

Regarding the perception of migrants, however, there is a difference. Since the referendum campaign, here in the UK, EU citizens have had to fight against a narrative which all of a sudden has depicted us as unwelcome migrants, as the ‘other’, the enemy, as people who weigh on the system. We have also had to deal with innumerable cases of xenophobia and hate crimes. The last we heard was yesterday by a member whose windows were vandalised. I don’t think that’s the case for most Brits in Europe, so in that I see a divergence.”

Zoe Adams Green: “What first gave you the idea of a book of testimonials?”

Elena: “The idea of the book came from my personal experience of dealing with the Home Office. When I obtained permanent residence after filling in the infamous 85-page document and sending 5 kilos of evidence, I decided to apply for citizenship.

On top of all the tests and documents already requested by the Home Office, I had to send an additional 3 kilos of evidence (including detailed bank statements and medical reports), as the Home Office simply wouldn’t believe that I had been living in this country for over 13 years even though I had a house, a car and a mortgage here. Sadly, I realised that I was not an isolated case, and this opened my eyes to the plight of many others.

Above all, after the referendum I noticed that many people had started sharing their feelings of anger, worry, disappointment and even betrayal on Facebook, and so I thought that if our voices could be collected in a book they could become a much stronger, collective voice. The aim of In Limbo is therefore to show the human side and the human cost of the Brexit story.”

Elena: “Definitely yes. This experience has opened my eyes to the plight of countless other people: EU citizens in the UK, UK citizens in the EU27, non-EU migrants or refugees, and it has given me a better insight into the hostile environment and the impact it has had on countless lives (for example on those of the Windrush generation). The fact is that I can no longer close my eyes after what I have heard from private chats or have read, so I think that I will continue to be involved in one way or another in these issues.” 

Many thanks from the Bremain team to Elena and Debbie – and thanks also to the Bremain members who sent in their testimonies to the In Limbo project.